Muhammad Yunus: ‘Why is the Bangladesh Army tackling student protestors, killing innocents?’
Bangladesh is reeling from days of violence as protestors took to the streets, attacked government buildings and vehicles to demonstrate against the quota system, and the Hasina government ordered a crackdown with army and paramilitary forces who were given shoot at sight orders. Nearly 200 have been killed, thousands injured including those blinded by pellet injuries.
Speaking to The Hindu from Paris in this exclusive interview, Nobel Laureate and Grameen Bank Founder Professor Muhammad Yunus appealed for the international community, particularly India, to reach out to PM Hasina to call for calm.
Give us a sense of what you’ve heard about the situation in Bangladesh. It seems to be under control after the new appellate court verdict…
Well, it’s not something that happened after I came here [to Paris, as special guest for Olympics ceremony]. I was there. I went to the airport through a curfew. The issue is the government is treating the situation as if a foreign army is invading Bangladesh… mobilising the Army and paramilitary to suppress demonstrators with bullets. They are in the mood to defeat them, not for bringing order. So what is it that happened? Why did they mobilise all those forces? Is the government a foreign power suppressing the locals by bullets? It’s your own citizens, young people from universities, the top one percent of society who are ready to run the country. And you’re killing them at random as if they are an invading force from another country! Shooting them on sight!
So that’s the kind of the situation which emerged in Bangladesh, and I’ve been appealing to the world leaders to see if the killing can be stopped. I cannot bear to see it, I cannot see millions of Bangladeshis living in terror. Democracy puts people’s life as the highest priority. Democracy is about protecting people, all people, irrespective of religion, political opinion, or any other differences of opinion. If a citizen is about to kill another person, the state’s first responsibility is to protect the person under attack. Killing the attacker is the last option, not the first option — and that was the way government of Bangladesh responded. Demonstrators were not out there to kill anybody. Their demand may be unpleasant to the government, but that doesn’t allow government to shoot them to kill.
You have called for the international community, for the United Nations to get involved. How exactly would you like them to act ?
I was not looking for any formal response. I was hoping that they can use their informal relationships and informal channels to restrain our leaders, make them aware of the serious departure from the norm of democracy. As a friendly action, to pick up the phone and say, What’s going on there? The kind of things friends do for friends, some way of cooling it down which would be helpful in saving people’s lives.
Leaders have their friends. Something can be done as friends. What are the friends for if you don’t give good advice at times of crisis.
India and Bangladesh are historical friends. India has already made a statement saying, this is the internal matter of Bangladesh.
You may say this in public as a public figure, but you can still use your friendship privately. PMs may be talking to each other if they see that something is going wrong.
We still have the dream of SAARC. We help each other. We make things easier for each other. There are natural bonds among us. If something happens in one country it can happen to another country at ease.
What we are seeing is that innocent people are being killed by the police, para military and army. This is a very strange situation. Why do you have to bring in army to tackle the student demonstration. Now you say, there are some enemies inside. Who are those enemies? Identify them and deal with them, not by killing students. That’s not how democracy and rule of law are supposed to function in a democratic country
In India, the concerns about the protests specifically over the 1971 quota, is that the subtext is fuelling anti-India sentiments. How far do you think that’s true?
That will be stretching the imagination too far. The Quota movement has not the slightest touch regarding the relationship between Bangladesh and India. The issue is democracy, rule of law, human rights, role of the judiciary . People have the right to express their views and the Government has no right to kill them for their views.
You’re objecting to the way the protests were handled. The Hasina government says that the protesters themselves turned violent, that they were picketing police posts…
There are procedures on how you deal with those who break the law. Nothing says that you have to kill at random. This is not the first time in the world where a government has had to deal with demonstrations . We see police firing innocent students raising their hands and shot at close range because they have power to shoot to kill. That’s what we see.
If demonstrators are unruly there are standard procedures to handle such a situation. There is something terribly wrong with rule of law and practice of democracy in Bangladesh. Let us not turn our face away from it for our convenience. We are members of SAARC. We are neighbours. All the media should come and see what is happening. First thing they [Bangladesh government] did, was to close down everything so that they can do things under cover of darkness so that nobody can see it from outside or even from inside. Why are they afraid of their own people?
The students have put out a list of their demands, including asking for Prime Minister Hasina to apologise for calling them Razakars (traitors), and for the resignation of ministers.
These are the demands for the students, and the procedure is that government responds to those things. That’s not how it’s working out.
Prime Minister Hasina has just won elections [in January 2024]. Isn’t calling for resignations undemocratic?
We have committed ourselves to democracy and to stay with democracy. Whether you’re a freshly elected or you’re not elected, or you are abusing your position without the consent of the people, does not matter in democracy You are a government responsible to protect people, not kill people. You cannot just pick up somebody because he belongs to opposition party, so he is liable to be arrested. Government can accuse him of an imaginary crime and arrest him. He should be in jail for that. That’s not rule of law. There has to be some procedure established by democratic norms.
Beyond that, what is the future of these protests?
If democracies fail, then you go back to people again to get the mandate of the people, credibility of the people, the government doesn’t have any credibility left at this moment.
Do you think the government should resign?
Do whatever is the norm in such situations arising within democratic framework. Democracy laid down all solutions. I don’t have to give a new verdict on that.
Is there a role you can play in improving the situation?
That is the role I’m playing right now, explaining the need for democracy [in Bangladesh].
The government has posted about 200 charges against you. There are convictions in cases over labour laws, and two new cases. Is the fight with PM Hasina personal?
These cases are also a failure of the rule of law. The accusations against me are about embezzlement, forgery, and money laundering. That I stole money from my own organisation. These are government accusations. These are totally fabricated stories, all made up. Many human rights organizations have said they are baseless. It is to harass me. In a labour law violation case I have already received six month’s prison sentence which is another cooked up case.
What do you think can bring Bangladesh back from this point, back to the norms of democracy that you say has failed?
Get the people’s mandate, freely and fairly. That’s it. Democracy cures problems by getting people’s instructions, because state belongs to the people, not to some people in the government.
Are you suggesting another election?
Of course, election is the ultimate solution of all political problems. When something doesn’t work, you go back to the people to seek their instructions. They are the ultimate owners of the country. Make sure it is a genuine election, not an election of a magician.
Do you think the situation in terms of violence is under control now, and could the protests return, now that the appellate court has cut down quotas?
The government is claiming that [the situation is under control] Even it stops it doesn’t mean the basic political problems are solved. There can be a temporary halt, but political engine will keep running, to restart at moment’s notice. Today what is happening in Bangladesh may happen in India. If you don’t speak out today, you bring this day closer for India, Nepal, Pakistan or other SAARC countries easily.
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